View source for TarValon Talks Sounding of the Horn: NYCC 2022 Edition

{{Template:TVTalks
|Title=New York Comic Con
|SeasonEp=Sounding of the Horn
|ReleaseDate=October 11, 2022
|Prev=TarValon Talks
|Next=TarValon Talks Sounding of the Horn: TarValon.Net's 21st Anniversary
|Host1=Adolla Ceryia
|Host2=Dianna Melear
|Host3=Thaddius al'Guy
|Synopsis=In this bonus episode our hosts discuss the Wheel of Time panel at 2022 New York Comic Con.
|SpotifyLink=https://open.spotify.com/episode/4zKnO5vUm3R8eM8bb43XPV?si=7857d15d7f4c408e
|AppleLink=https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sounding-of-the-horn-nycc/id1643447174?i=1000582236242
|YTLink=https://youtu.be/RNgPrBHNPfw?feature=shared
}}
== Transcript ==

'''00;00;08;02 - 00;00;09;20'''

'''Dianna'''

Hi Everyone. And welcome to this special edition of TarValon Talks. This is a “Sounding of the Horn” episode where we talk about the New York Comic-Con panel that occurred on October 7, 2022. I'm Dianna.


'''00;00;19;29 - 00;00;21;01'''

'''Doll'''

And I'm Doll.


'''00;00;21;01 - 00;00;21;18'''

'''Thad'''

And I'm Thad


'''00;00;21;18 - 00;00;37;18'''

'''Dianna'''

And we are going to talk about all things with the panel. We are going to break down the sneak peek that we got. And we're also going to talk a little bit about release date timing and why we don't have that yet. All righty. So should we just jump on in?


'''00;00;38;01 - 00;00;39;21'''

'''Doll'''

I think we should.


'''00;00;38;01 - 00;00;39;21'''

'''Thad'''

Head first.


'''00;00;40;02 - 00;01;16;27'''

'''Dianna'''

I should say that Doll ,Thad, and I were not in the audience. And so unfortunately, we have not seen the Elaine and Mat clips that they dropped at the panel. Maybe we'll do another Sounding of the Horn episode whenever those come out. Maybe we won't. Maybe we'll talk about them in a future episode. Not sure. I think we should start at the top with Rosamund Pike's absolutely incredible and unhinged intro.

But Rosamund Pike released a video, because she was not at the panel, of her speaking to herself as Moiraine and my head canon is that it was not just Rosamund Pike, is that it was Rosamund Pike playing Amy Dunne from Gone Girl.


'''00;01;17;15 - 00;01;19;11'''

'''Thad'''

That's what I thought, too, actually.


'''00;01;19;20 - 00;01;25;28'''

'''Doll'''

She was definitely playing a character. I mean, I haven’t seen Gone Girl, so I can't say for sure, but it was definitely not Rosamund Pike.


'''00;01;26;06 - 00;01;37;03'''

'''Dianna'''

I'm just going to plug here that you should watch Gone Girl, because it's an amazing movie. But she, yes, she was in Gone Girl. Her character, Amy Dunne, is quite unhinged. 


'''00;01;37;08 - 00;01;39;02'''

'''Thad'''

And that's putting it lightly.


'''00;01;40;16 - 00;01;42;24'''

'''Dianna'''

And is very good at like picking at people.


'''00;01;43;12 - 00;01;44;00'''

'''Doll'''

Okay.


'''00;01;44;15 - 00;02;13;25'''

'''Dianna'''
And it felt like that's exactly what she was doing with herself as Moiraine and I, it had me in tears. I was laughing so hard, especially when she was like, ”You have them on their knees.” And I was like, “Rosamund Pike knows exactly how crazy we all were about that line.” So it's amazing. If you haven't watched it yet, go watch the clip. It is worth every second. She's also singing. Is she singing the…?.


'''00;02;14;04 - 00;02;18;03'''

'''Doll'''

It's the Manetheren song that they did in the second episode.


'''00;02;18;04 - 00;02;22;23'''

'''Thad'''

Yeah, I think so. And if you don't know where to look for it, it's on her official Instagram.


'''00;02;22;23 - 00;02;24;18'''

'''Doll'''

Yeah.


'''00;02;24;25 - 00;02;30;23'''

'''Dianna'''

We also got to meet a couple of new cast at the panel. Do you guys want to talk about Donal and Ceara?


'''00;02;30;26 - 00;02;49;20'''

'''Doll'''

Yeah, unfortunately, we didn't get to see the actual videos they showed at the panel because of copyright issues, but they did show us a screenshot of Donal as Mat, and it's going to be hard not to compare him to Barney, but they do look kind of similar. Apparently he was in a prison of some sort.


'''00;02;49;21 - 00;03;11;06'''

'''Dianna'''

My guess is that he, this is Mat getting picked up by the Red Sisters and they've put him in a cell in Tar Valon in the White Tower. And while they're Healing him? Question mark? And this is him talking to Liandrin, which I did not realize those catchers are going to interact.


'''00;03;11;28 - 00;03;15;10'''

'''Thad'''

Yeah, that was definitely a bit wild for me.


'''00;03;15;22 - 00;03;19;27'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah, I can't remember if Mat and Liandrin ever interact in the books.


'''00;03;20;15 - 00;03;38;00'''

'''Thad'''

As far as I can think and I've been doing a very recent reread, I can't even remember them ever coming across each other because, you know, by the fourth book they've all well, I guess we should say also that there's going to be plenty of spoilers in here.


'''00;03;38;08 - 00;03;41;27'''

'''Dianna'''

Yes, but we will try not to spoil things past book three.


'''00;03;41;27 - 00;03;48;00'''

'''Thad'''

Yeah. So well I'll, I'll leave that hanging but up to book three. Yeah. They don't interact.


'''00;03;48;18 - 00;04;00;16'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah. So I thought that was interesting. Okay. Interesting way to sort of like I guess they have Liandrin sort of being the face of the Red Ajah, which is fine. I mean, Kate is amazing.


'''00;04;00;16 - 00;04;21;22'''

'''Doll'''

And this is back to that whole where they feel it feels like they're giving Liandrin a lot of Elaida’s roles, at least in the early part. So if we don't get Elaida, we might be getting more Liandrin for that, but I certainly hope they bring Elaida in.


'''00;04;21;22 - 00;04;25;19'''

'''Dianna'''

I hope so too. That’s what we’ve talked about, I can’t wait for her.


'''00;04;25;29 - 00;04;35;18'''

'''Thad'''

Yeah, I can't see them not, really at this point, where they're covering Tear, because they did say in the panel. Right. That they are covering book two and three, basically.


'''00;04;35;18 - 00;04;40;01'''

'''Doll'''

Rafe said that they would actually be at the end of book three at the end of this.


'''00;04;40;04 - 00;04;45;04'''

'''Thad'''

So we, as I think one of you predicted, we will get to see the sacking of Tear.


'''00;04;46;21 - 00;04;49;26'''

'''Doll'''

And… Ceara? Is it Ceara?


'''00;04;49;26 - 00;04;52;24'''

'''Dianna'''

I think I might be pronouncing it correctly. It might be Cheara?


'''00;04;53;04 - 00;04;53;14'''

'''Doll'''

Yeah.


'''00;04;54;02 - 00;04;57;19'''

'''Dianna'''

They both have Irish names and we are all American, so.


'''00;04;57;23 - 00;05;04;10'''

'''Doll'''

Yeah, sorry, sorry. I have no idea what they showed for Elaine because they didn't talk about it as much.


'''00;05;04;10 - 00;05;25;00'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah. It was also her in a room. I'm assuming it was her and Egwene in their Novice room potentially talking, the two of them and maybe Nynaeve. And my guess is that it’s Elaine being princessey and Egwene kind of putting her in her place, or maybe Nynaeve putting her in her place.


'''00;05;25;00 - 00;05;26;05'''

'''Doll'''

I would see Nynaeve.


'''00;05;25;00 - 00;05;26;05'''

'''Thad'''

Oh, absolutely. Yeah.


'''00;05;26;13 - 00;05;28;10'''

'''Dianna'''

And so that's exciting.


'''00;05;28;22 - 00;05;32;04'''

'''Doll'''

I can't wait to see the wonder girls in action.


'''00;05;32;22 - 00;05;35;05'''

'''Dianna'''

The wonder girls. I'm so excited.


'''00;05;35;05 - 00;05;42;12'''

'''Doll'''

But yeah, the picture that you showed us is Elaine in white. So I'm assuming that's her novice robe. So maybe we're skipping Caemlyn entirely.


'''00;05;42;27 - 00;05;59;11'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah. I have a feeling we'll probably skip Caemlyn entirely. My theory for a while is that we were going to be introduced to Elaine in the White Tower. That Egwene and Nynaeve were going to come to the White Tower, and they were going to be like “Egwene, here's your roommate. She's a princess. Good luck.”


'''00;06;00;04 - 00;06;02;02'''

'''Doll'''

Yeah, it does feel that way.


'''00;06;02;05 - 00;06;14;21'''

'''Thad'''

It works better, if, I mean, it works better. You know, the whole scene with Rand in Caemlyn in book one and it can kind of be cut. We've already covered most of that stuff anyway.


'''00;06;15;07 - 00;06;25;10'''

'''Doll'''

That's exactly what I was going to say. Like we've already gotten most of the stuff that happened in Caemlyn, we met Basil Gill and Loial and like other than meeting Elaine and...


'''00;06;25;12 - 00;06;26;25'''

'''Dianna''' 

Meet cute.


'''00;06;25;12 - 00;06;26;25'''

''Doll''

What?


'''00;06;25;12 - 00;06;26;25'''

'''Dianna''' 

The meet cute.


'''00;06;27;08 - 00;06;28;15'''

'''Doll'''

Oh the meet cute yes.


'''00;06;28;16 - 00;06;46;18'''

'''Dianna'''

Oh literally the only meet cute in the entire series. I feel like they can do a meet cute in Falme despite the fact that Falme looks like it's going to be a disaster. Disaster “good” I should say. Disaster Seanchan caused, not disaster in terms of production. But they could still do a meet cute there.


'''00;06;47;19 - 00;06;53;07'''

'''Doll'''

Yeah, I guess you can't really do the meet cute because Rand’s running off to the Waste… I mean not the Waste…


'''00;06;53;07 - 00;06;53;25'''

'''Dianna'''

Probably to Tear I would think.


'''00;06;54;04 - 00;06;55;15'''

'''Doll'''

He’s going to meet the Aiel.


'''00;06;56;17 - 00;07;00;24'''

'''Dianna'''

So the Aiel, they cross the Spine of the World.


'''00;07;00;24 - 00;07;01;10'''

'''Thad'''

The Dragon Wall. 


'''00;07;01;10 - 00;07;04;10'''

'''Dianna'''

And he meets the Aiel.


'''00;07;04;19 - 00;07;06;07'''

'''Doll'''

We definitely see some dessert.


'''00;07;06;07 - 00;07;10;16'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah. I'm wondering if that's outside of Falme, since they figured, they filmed Falme in Morocco.


'''00;07;10;16 - 00;07;14;17'''

'''Doll'''

Yeah, that's possible. So do we want to get into the teaser trailer now?


'''00;07;14;18 - 00;07;52;04'''

'''Dianna'''

I do have one more thought, which I should have mentioned when we talked about Rosamund’s intro. She talks about being, Moiraine being in Cairhien, which and her going back there. So we're going to see some Game of Houses stuff I would think. Very interesting. Yes, Daes Dae’mar, uh which will be fun. I had thought that she was going to go off into like the wilderness to go find hopefully Verin, but it sounds like she's going to go back to Cairhien, into her roots a little bit, which will be very, very interesting and fun and I'm excited for that as well.


'''00;07;52;24 - 00;07;55;06'''

'''Doll'''

Did we see Cairhien in the first three books?


'''00;07;55;07 - 00;08;04;24'''

'''Dianna'''

Yes, Rand goes there in two. Lanfear brings him there and that's when he burns the letters and is like, “I refuse to play.” And Moiraine is like “You’re playing regardless, kid.”


'''00;08;04;24 - 00;08;05;08'''

'''Doll'''

Yeah, yeah.


'''00;08;05;08 - 00;08;21;26'''

'''Thad'''

That's, I don't think they go into the city proper but he's definitely in the built or like outer wall peasant like sector that's like outside of the main city and that you know I don't think they, I don't think he gets much further than that before he picks, uhm I might be mixing it up with a future event.


'''00;08;22;02 - 00;08;32;29'''

'''Dianna'''

He I think he gets to like a second and I think he gets to very like the edge of the city proper. Yeah because I think he's staying at an inn and that's where they give him all the letters.


'''00;08;33;10 - 00;08;37;08'''

'''Thad'''

Cause if I remember right, at when he's, when they're passing the Choedan Kal for the first time.


'''00;08;37;10 - 00;08;54;03'''

'''Dianna'''

Yes. Yeah. And Lanfear tries to tempt him into using it. I only remember that because that is still part of them hunting for the horn. And they end up, they go to the Spine and they meet a couple of Aiel, it’s the first time you see Aiel in the books.


'''00;08;54;03 - 00;08;55;23'''

'''Doll'''

And besides the dead one that’s hanging.


'''00;08;55;27 - 00;09;05;19'''

'''Dianna'''

Besides the dead one that they see in, I think they see in the first book, and they just sort of like come out of the ground and they're like, “Do you know where the horn is?” They like, “Nope, bye.” And then they just sort of like keep going.


'''00;09;06;25 - 00;09;14;06'''

'''Thad'''

Yeah, it was I think one dude who was like, pops up to the party and he goes, “Hey, I'm looking for the Car’a’carn.” Basically.


'''00;09;14;23 - 00;09;21;12'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah. And they're like, “That's cool. We don't know what that is.” 

I am surprised that we're getting Aiel in Falme.


'''00;09;22;04 - 00;09;25;07'''

'''Thad'''

Yeah, considering it's on the other side of the continent.


'''00;09;25;16 - 00;09;30;02'''

'''Dianna'''

Unless we're getting Aiel in Tear and that's what we saw Aiel was doing. That would make more sense.


'''00;09;30;11 - 00;09;31;15'''

'''Thad'''

That's got to be what it is.


'''00;09;31;19 - 00;09;36;02'''

'''Doll'''

That's why I said it looks like we're seeing the sacking of Tear cause we see the Aiel.


'''00;09;36;02 - 00;09;44;09'''

'''Dianna'''

I thought the Aiel are fighting the Seanchan. But now that I'm thinking about it, they were fighting the Whitecloaks in the little, little snippet that we saw. So that actually makes a ton of sense.


'''00;09;44;09 - 00;09;48;08'''

'''Thad'''

And I'm pretty sure, you know, plenty of high lords of Tear are in that mix, too.


'''00;09;48;16 - 00;09;52;15'''

'''Dianna'''

Let's dive into this sneak peek. I’m so thrilled, I have it up.


'''00;09;52;15 - 00;09;55;21'''

'''Doll'''

There was so much in that and so little at the same time.


'''00;09;56;04 - 00;09;59;05'''

'''Dianna'''

I think someone described this as getting crumbs.


'''00;09;59;15 - 00;10;06;21'''

'''Doll'''

I took screenshots of multiple fighting scenes and trying to determine, are these Seanchan, or are these something else?


'''00;10;06;25 - 00;10;10;22'''

'''Thad'''

Well, we know they're Seanchan or not because they've got really ugly helmets.


'''00;10;11;05 - 00;10;36;06'''

'''Dianna'''

They do look very disturbing. The aesthetics for the Seanchan at least that we saw on the sneak peek are spot on absolutely incredible, so very different than anything else you've seen in the show before. And I love every part of it. And the costume team really went to town with the Seanchan like A-plus to them. They look amazing.


'''00;10;36;06 - 00;10;42;23'''

'''Doll'''

So like this first screenshot, oh, 34 seconds, when you see that these are definitely Seanchan.


'''00;10;43;11 - 00;10;50;07'''

'''Dianna'''

Oh yeah. That looks like Seanchan. And so what we're looking at, yeah. 00:34 we're looking at Seanchan.


'''00;10;50;15 - 00;10;51;11'''

'''Thad'''

Looks like Uno.


'''00;10;51;13 - 00;10;53;28'''

'''Dianna'''

Looks like they have Uno on his knees.


'''00;10;54;28 - 00;10;58;12'''

'''Doll'''

Yeah. Uno on his knees. And is that a damane in the corner?


'''00;10;58;12 - 00;11;01;00'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah, and Perrin is in the background.


'''00;11;02;03 - 00;11;03;00'''

'''Thad'''

Yeah. There he is.


'''00;11;03;00 - 00;11;04;08'''

'''Doll'''

I didn't even see that.


'''00;11;04;14 - 00;11;05;17'''

'''Thad'''

Yeah, I missed that too.


'''00;11;05;21 - 00;11;23;01'''

'''Dianna'''

Because this is right after they've shown Perrin looking up, so this is what he and Loial is there in the background as well. It looks like it's in some village so they must encounter Seanchan on the road while they're hunting for the horn and for Padan Fain, and get kidnaped, presuming that they fight the Seanchan at some point, given what we saw later in the sneak peek.


'''00;11;23;22 - 00;11;32;07'''

'''Thad'''

Yeah, so it’s definitely going to be on the coast. So maybe it could be stuck around Falme and you know Tanchico and Bandar Eban.


'''00;11;32;12 - 00;11;33;07'''

'''Dianna'''

Thad is looking at his map.


'''00;11;33;07 - 00;11;35;14'''

'''Thad'''

That's why I have it hanging on the wall. 


'''00;11;35;16 - 00;11;35;29'''

'''Doll'''

That's smart.


'''00;11;35;16 - 00;11;35;29'''

'''Dianna'''

I love it.


'''00;11;36;13 - 00;11;52;18'''

'''Thad'''

I definitely don't think it'll be any one of the big cities, definitely not Falme, that looks way to countryside for Falme. And we know that the Seanchan got pretty decently far into the Almoth plain before I guess they were treated. I don't know if they made it to the mountain.


'''00;11;52;26 - 00;11;55;00'''

'''Doll'''

Where is Falme?


'''00;11;55;00 - 00;11;57;11'''

'''Dianna'''

It’s a coastal city, and I think it's actually fairly north.


'''00;11;57;11 - 00;12;00;22'''

'''Thad'''

No, it's halfway through it. South of Bandar Eban, north of Tanchico.


'''00;12;00;24 - 00;12;02;15'''

'''Dianna'''

I really shouldn't quote the map when I have no map in front of me.


'''00;12;02;23 - 00;12;08;13'''

'''Thad'''

Yeah probably one of the, one of the small towns in between that kind of got its own little finger off of the main continent.


'''00;12;08;16 - 00;12;10;19'''

'''Doll'''

Oh, I see it now. That's a long way to travel.


'''00;12;10;22 - 00;12;24;16'''

'''Thad'''

Well, if you use a portal stone, that's what a, that's what a Verin and party did to get to Falme initially because it was like “It's going to be three months of travel” and then they decide to do the portal stone and then three months of travel still happened because of flicker, flicker, flicker, flicker, flicker.


'''00;12;24;23 - 00;12;28;16'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah, cause that flicker, flicker, flicker, flicker. I think Rafe said we might get flicker, flicker.


'''00;12;28;17 - 00;12;34;28'''

'''Thad'''

Visually, that would be impressive because it would be very similar to the scene at the end of the first season where Ba'alzamon, Ishamael…


'''00;12;35;14 - 00;12;38;04'''

'''Doll'''

Yeah, Ishamael. Wait, no, it’s the Dark One.


'''00;12;38;04 - 00;12;42;11'''
'''Thad'''

Well, they now said in the teaser trailer “His lieutenant is free.”


'''00;12;42;11 - 00;13;01;26'''

'''Dianna'''

I thought it was very interesting that we were clearly, that we're dropping Ishamael as the Dark One really early. I thought that is a smart choice but purists will probably argue with it. But I, I think that it is an incredibly smart choice if they are going to accelerate introducing the Forsaken, which seems like that's what they're doing.


'''00;13;01;26 - 00;13;12;00'''

'''Dianna'''

I've seen a lot of people online theorizing that that table, that roundtable shot that we see is not a Forsaken meet up. It's the Dark Friends Social.


'''00;13;12;02 - 00;13;13;23'''

'''Thad'''

Yeah, cause there’s only 12 people, including him.


'''00;13;14;05 - 00;13;34;07'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah, I'm still inclined to say it's a Forsaken meet up, but could be the social and they could just be tricking us by having the line over that be “He may be waking the Forsaken”, especially because there's only 12. I was trying to think of, if I was a showrunner and I was going to drop one Forsaken, Who would I drop? And I decided on the old man whose name I can't remember.


'''00;13;34;08 - 00;13;34;20'''

'''Thad'''

Aginor.


'''00;13;34;29 - 00;13;36;04'''

'''Dianna'''

Aginor. Yeah.

'''00;13;36;22 - 00;13;38;06'''

'''Doll'''

Was it Aginor or Be’lal?


'''00;13;38;17 - 00;13;47;06'''

'''Thad'''

It's either one of the two because this is the really decrepit man who was at the edge of the seal so his body aged, but, you know, he didn't die, that’s Aginor.


'''00;13;47;16 - 00;13;49;27'''

'''Dianna'''

Hmm. Yeah, that's who I was thinking of.


'''00;13;49;27 - 00;13;59;09'''

'''Thad'''

I mean, he, I get, he has an important role for later in the series, but I get that can easily be replaced by anybody else, considering if you know what I'm talking about.


'''00;13;59;11 - 00;14;00;17'''

'''Doll'''

Yeah, mmhmm.


'''00;14;01;03 - 00;14;02;03'''

'''Dianna'''

Read and Find Out if you don’t.


'''00;14;02;08 - 00;14;02;16'''

'''Thad'''

Yeah.


'''00;14;02;29 - 00;14;07;22'''

'''Doll'''

This is definitely Ishamael here, but we don't see who all the cloaked figures are.


'''00;14;07;25 - 00;14;16;23'''

'''Dianna'''

And there's different costumes. So I've seen people theorize that this could be like the Dark Friends Social where we see that like a Whitecloak is part of the Dark Friends.


'''00;14;16;27 - 00;14;30;01'''

'''Thad'''

I'm leaning to believe that it is exactly that because as we, you know, we know in the show, even in the first few books, the Forsaken don't like to play with each other at all.


'''00;14;30;11 - 00;14;46;00'''

'''Dianna'''

There is one person here who has cufflinks, which I think is, it could maybe point to it being a Forsaken. Or this also could be a flashback. This could be a red herring flashback to the Age of Legends or to the War of Power.


'''00;14;46;00 - 00;14;47;17'''

'''Doll'''

I don't think they would have torches.


'''00;14;47;27 - 00;14;50;14'''

'''Dianna'''

True. Yeah, they would probably have glow lights.


'''00;14;50;27 - 00;14;53;13'''

'''Doll'''

Yeah, glow light. Which would be really cool looking.


'''00;14;54;01 - 00;15;08;17'''

'''Dianna'''

And they've definitely leaned into the Age of Legends is the future with flying cars. So yeah I think you're you're probably right it's probably not the Age of Legends, unless they were like, you know what it's War of Power, now we've lost all of our technology, but we're and we're still going to meet in the dark.


'''00;15;09;02 - 00;15;10;17'''

'''Thad'''

Should we talk about the bloody hand?


'''00;15;11;05 - 00;15;11;26'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah.


'''00;15;12;03 - 00;15;15;07'''

'''Doll'''

Speaking of Forsaken, is this Lanfear?


'''00;15;15;09 - 00;15;19;04'''

'''Dianna'''

I hope so. Let her make a dramatic entrance.


'''00;15;19;12 - 00;15;24;16'''

'''Doll'''

Going back to the portal flashes. This could be it. Isn't that where we meet her? Within the portal stones?


'''00;15;24;20 - 00;15;28;14'''

'''Thad'''

Yeah, because she, she's in one of the other alternate realities.


'''00;15;28;21 - 00;15;33;03'''

'''Dianna'''

And you know, looking at that hand now, that hand may not be Ishamael’s hand.


'''00;15;33;16 - 00;15;34;02'''

'''Thad'''

I don't think it is.


'''00;15;34;02 - 00;15;36;17'''

'''Doll'''

It’s definitely very, it looks feminine.


'''00;15;36;27 - 00;15;39;04'''

'''Thad'''

Are you talking about the bloody hand or the hand that grabs?


'''00;15;39;04 - 00;15;40;11'''

'''Dianna'''

Hand that's grabbing her.


'''00;15;40;16 - 00;15;42;03'''

'''Doll'''

Oh, the hand that grabs.


'''00;15;42;03 - 00;15;44;00'''

'''Dianna'''

Could easily be Rand's hand.


'''00;15;44;03 - 00;15;45;06'''

'''Doll'''

That's what I thought.


'''00;15;45;06 - 00;16;00;22'''

'''Dianna'''

Which would definitely point to it being Lanfear. I really hope it is, that like the flick of the wrist that the hand does, the drama. Like I want Lanfear to have her hot girl dramatic moments so badly.


'''00;16;00;26 - 00;16;06;13'''

'''Doll'''

She's definitely the goth emo girl that skulked around in dramatic poses.


'''00;16;06;19 - 00;16;07;27'''

'''Thad'''

100%.


'''00;16;07;27 - 00;16;10;06'''

'''Dianna'''

Mhmm, I love a good drama queen.


'''00;16;10;20 - 00;16;12;24'''

'''Doll'''

This is definitely Lanfear’s Carrie moment.


'''00;16;13;17 - 00;16;14;02'''

'''Dianna'''

Yes a 100%.


'''00;16;16;08 - 00;16;24;08'''

'''Doll'''

So I don't know what else it could be, I haven't seen any other speculation on that being anybody but Lanfear.


'''00;16;24;16 - 00;16;32;03'''

'''Dianna'''

I maybe maybe it's some nightmare that Ishamael is giving Rand but I think that's pretty unlikely.


'''00;16;32;23 - 00;16;42;03'''

'''Doll'''

Yeah I think I think we definitely have a bat theme about his nightmares unless we're going to change that for season two. Season one was bats. Season two is bloody women.


'''00;16;42;15 - 00;16;56;14'''

'''Thad'''

I don't think it could be a nightmare for Rand at least because I don't think he would willingly take the bloody hand like that. That's just my opinion on it. He could very well, you know, but without framing it just seems like, “Oh, I've been waiting for you” kind of.


'''00;16;56;18 - 00;16;58;15'''

'''Doll'''

It just feels like Lanfear.


'''00;16;58;28 - 00;17;00;13'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah, it does. It really does.


'''00;17;00;26 - 00;17;08;09'''

'''Doll'''

Going back to the Seanchan, we see a high lady with the fingernails. It seems to be her two middle fingers.


'''00;17;08;17 - 00;17;09;29'''

'''Thad'''

That was her index and middle I thought.


'''00;17;09;29 - 00;17;18;13'''

'''Doll'''

Well yeah, ring and… it's, I'm looking at the pic. Oh no. It is the index and middle finger. Do we think this is Suroth?


'''00;17;18;18 - 00;17;19;27'''

'''Thad'''

I think it is, yeah.


'''00;17;20;02 - 00;17;27;17'''

'''Doll'''

I think so, like I don't think they bring Tuon in that early. I can't think of anybody. It has to be Suroth. It also doesn't look like Tuon.


'''00;17;27;27 - 00;17;40;17'''

'''Dianna'''

It doesn't look like Tuon at all. There is somebody who could maybe be Tuon in one of the shots of the sneak peak. It's actually in that shot we were looking at earlier.


'''00;17;41;04 - 00;17;42;21'''

'''Thad'''

You think it's the damane?


'''00;17;43;28 - 00;18;21;15'''

'''Dianna'''

No, because it's not a damane. It is a very dark skinned woman with like completely shaved hair, except that her hair is all white. I don't think that's not a damane. It doesn't look like the damane costume. I think it's a, I don't actually think it is Tuon. I think it's one of their servants because their servants are, like wear all white. It's like they have the very see through clothing.

But if we were going to get Tuon in season two, that could be a shot of her. I don't think they're going to bring her in in season two, though. I think that that would be a wildly too early introduction for her. It's like 00:34 before it zooms in on Uno. Do you see that?


'''00;18;21;15 - 00;18;24;06'''

'''Thad'''

Oh, you're talking about her? I mean, she got that thing over her mouth.


'''00;18;24;14 - 00;18;26;11'''

'''Doll'''

That's a damane. 


'''00;18;26;11 - 00;18;28;22'''

'''Thad'''

Yeah, it's the damane. I'm pretty sure.


'''00;18;28;22 - 00;18;29;01'''

'''Doll'''

Yeah.


'''00;18;30;03 - 00;18;31;18'''

'''Dianna'''

She doesn't have the collar, though.


'''00;18;31;22 - 00;18;33;05'''

'''Doll'''

It's hard to tell anything. Well.


'''00;18;33;13 - 00;18;35;03'''

'''Thad'''

She could be wearing something over it.


'''00;18;35;08 - 00;18;36;10'''

'''Dianna'''

I think she's a servant.


'''00;18;36;20 - 00;18;38;25'''

'''Doll'''

Oh, is it the. Oh, wait.


'''00;18;39;00 - 00;18;40;29'''

'''Dianna'''

I think it's a, I think it's a nose ring thing.


'''00;18;41;18 - 00;18;45;07'''

'''Doll'''

Is she the truth speaker? That Tuon posed as.


'''00;18;45;25 - 00;18;47;21'''

'''Dianna'''

Could be a truth speaker for sure.


'''00;18;47;21 - 00;18;48;17'''

'''Thad'''

That's interesting.


'''00;18;48;25 - 00;18;50;06'''

'''Dianna'''

Definitely could be a truth speaker.


'''00;18;50;11 - 00;18;55;23'''

'''Doll'''

Tuon posed as somebody who she wasn’t for a while, was it a truth speaker or was it something else?


'''00;18;55;25 - 00;18;57;21'''

'''Dianna'''

I think it was a truth speaker.


'''00;18;57;21 - 00;18;59;07'''

'''Doll'''

So maybe it is Tuon.


'''00;18;59;11 - 00;19;10;21'''

'''Dianna'''

That would be amazing. My favorite, my problematic fave. If we get my problematic fave in season two I will lose my mind. I love Tuon so much, but God, she's a menace.


'''00;19;11;22 - 00;19;13;12'''

'''Doll'''

We can't talk about her. She's not in book one two or three.


'''00;19;13;17 - 00;19;21;11'''

'''Dianna'''

I know, I know. So, like, I don't actually think we are getting Tuon. But I saw her and I was like, hey, if we, if we are there she is.


'''00;19;21;17 - 00;19;24;28'''

'''Doll'''

I thought that was a damane. Cause didn't they have something over their mouths?


'''00;19;24;29 - 00;19;25;20'''

'''Thad'''

They did.


'''00;19;25;21 - 00;19;36;06'''

'''Dianna'''

So I think that that's not something over her mouth. I think that's actually a nose ring with like some dangly bits hanging down. But she's not wearing a collar and the colors are very distinctive.


'''00;19;36;06 - 00;19;43;20'''

'''Thad'''

Yeah, we've got a picture of the damane from season,  at the end of season one basically. So we know how they look.


'''00;19;43;22 - 00;19;44;04'''

'''Dianna'''

Right.


'''00;19;44;05 - 00;19;49;27'''

'''Doll'''

Oh, no, I'm looking at it closer and that may not even be over her mouth. That might be something in the background.


'''00;19;50;19 - 00;19;51;17'''

'''Dianna'''

Could be that too.


'''00;19;51;22 - 00;20;00;23'''

'''Doll'''

I just blew it up really big. I was like, “Maybe there's something” because it's sticking out under her chin even, like her neck and chin.


'''00;20;00;23 - 00;20;01;10'''

'''Dianna'''

Think it's a weird.. 


'''00;20;01;10 - 00;20;02;25'''

'''Doll'''

I think it may be a tree.


'''00;20;03;08 - 00;20;04;17'''

'''Dianna'''

I think it's a nose ring. That's hanging down over her mouth. 


'''00;20;05;09 - 00;20;10;10'''

'''Doll'''

Yeah , I think there’s a nose ring. And then there's a tree branch behind her that's sort of blending in with the nose ring.


'''00;20;10;10 - 00;20;11;14'''

'''Thad'''

Wouldn't that be something, huh?


'''00;20;12;14 - 00;20;12;24'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah.


'''00;20;13;29 - 00;20;15;21'''

'''Doll'''

We're really over analyzing


'''00;20;15;21 - 00;20;20;15'''

'''Dianna'''

That is what is going to happen with the sneak peek. They knew, they knew.


'''00;20;20;28 - 00;20;27;06'''

'''Doll'''

Well, Rafe even said it. He said tomorrow there will be a thousand people analyzing every second.


'''00;20;27;06 - 00;20;31;17'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah, yeah. He's not wrong.


'''00;20;31;17 - 00;20;33;16'''

'''Thad'''

I still think it's something over her mouth.


'''00;20;35;01 - 00;20;36;10'''

'''Doll'''

We’ll see, we’ll have to see.


'''00;20;36;22 - 00;20;38;04'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah, we'll watch and find out.


'''00;20;38;20 - 00;20;41;01'''

'''Doll'''

Yeah. Those fingernails are so creepy.


'''00;20;41;07 - 00;20;47;02'''

'''Dianna'''

They're so creepy. They made them so long. And I'm really glad that they secured them.


'''00;20;47;18 - 00;20;48;10'''

'''Doll'''

Yeah. Yeah.


'''00;20;48;21 - 00;20;53;17'''

'''Thad'''

But that's how I always imagined them. They always had two long nails, and I imagined like very long.


'''00;20;53;19 - 00;20;58;08'''

'''Doll'''

I always assumed they'd be curled because I've always seen, like when your nails get that long, they curl. But yeah.


'''00;20;58;09 - 00;20;59;06'''

'''Dianna'''

They'll curl down.


'''00;20;59;11 - 00;21;01;12'''

'''Thad'''

I imagined that these are fake nails probably.


'''00;21;01;12 - 00;21;04;26'''

'''Doll'''

That would take years to grow out. 


'''00;21;01;12 - 00;21;04;26'''

'''Thad'''

Yeah.


'''00;21;05;08 - 00;21;18;29'''

'''Dianna'''

The manicure on that high lady on high lady Suroth for the rest of her hands. Looks real great. Whoever is doing her nails, good job. Like, she's like a perfect French tip. I love nails and makeup and hair, so any time that I see that, I'm 
like.


'''00;21;19;07 - 00;21;20;29'''

'''Thad'''

You've got more knowledge than I do.


'''00;21;22;00 - 00;21;30;08'''

'''Dianna'''

These definitely look like fake nails. And that could just be a costuming thing that they were like, We're not going to make our actors grow their nails out ridiculously long, but they definitely look like fake nails.


'''00;21;30;13 - 00;21;32;16'''

'''Doll'''

I still can't get over this ridiculous mask.


'''00;21;32;22 - 00;21;34;20'''

'''Dianna'''

I love the mask. It's so spooky.


'''00;21;34;22 - 00;21;36;27'''

'''Doll'''

Like, I'm too good for you to look at me.


'''00;21;37;02 - 00;21;43;12'''

'''Thad'''

She doesn't let anybody look at her when, you know, anybody is present, face down to the floor. Unless you're a bodyguard.


'''00;21;43;24 - 00;21;45;10'''

'''Doll'''

It just sort of reinforces it.


'''00;21;45;25 - 00;22;00;08'''

'''Dianna'''

And it's it's very it's very alienesque and they have they've done a really good job with the costuming in terms of making it look very alien, very like foreign. Insect like. Yeah.


'''00;22;00;09 - 00;22;02;02'''

'''Doll'''

Described in the books as insect-like.


'''00;22;02;18 - 00;22;04;04'''

'''Thad'''

They show you those wings in the back.


'''00;22;04;26 - 00;22;09;10'''

'''Dianna'''

It looks very cool. I am here for all of the Seanchan aesthetics.


'''00;22;09;26 - 00;22;15;17'''

'''Thad'''

I do like that they redesigned the Seanchan emblem a little bit.


'''00;22;16;01 - 00;22;16;13'''

'''Dianna'''

Oh yeah.


'''00;22;16;25 - 00;22;34;01'''

'''Thad'''

But a little bit later you can see it hanging on the wall. Hanging on the wall. I guess they're defending that point. I was like, What nation is that? So I pulled up all of the emblems of all of the nation, and it was the Seanchan it and they redesigned it to look a little bit tighter than how it looks in the books, but it looks relatively the same.


'''00;22;34;09 - 00;22;35;13'''

'''Dianna'''

It is at 43?


'''00;22;35;13 - 00;22;36;03'''

'''Thad'''

00:43. Yeah.


'''00;22;36;11 - 00;22;49;01'''

'''Dianna'''

And the other interesting thing that's at 00:43 is we see another person with long nails. I'm thinking that's Turak and he's in the middle being defended by a couple of people by Death watch guards, I’m assuming.


'''00;22;49;01 - 00;23;04;18'''

'''Thad'''

Then they're also wearing a mask. It looked like it. I don't have it in HD. I don't know if this thing is HD video or not, but it's just like the background is just just blurry enough that it's hard to tell. But I'm pretty sure they are wearing a mask.


'''00;23;05;02 - 00;23;06;13'''

'''Doll'''

Image is blurry.


'''00;23;06;13 - 00;23;11;05'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah. Yeah, it's a it's a fast moving image. So if you make it, so if you pause it it’s tough to see.


'''00;23;11;10 - 00;23;29;23'''

'''Thad'''

Yeah, each of these images are, you know, a fraction of a second. So we don't even get a full. But this , this right here is I think outside of the previous scene with them having Uno on his knees. This is the first like good shot of the Seanchan armor that we get from the front. We get to see it all. Those helmets are creepy.


'''00;23;31;03 - 00;23;34;10'''

'''Dianna'''

They are So creepy they look like bug carcasses.


'''00;23;34;22 - 00;23;40;06'''

'''Doll'''

Oh I see the nails now. I was looking at the person in the back, which I think is a sul’dam maybe.


'''00;23;40;19 - 00;23;44;29'''

'''Thad'''

Yeah. And you want the, you want the person that’s like  in between the two people in the front.


'''00;23;45;08 - 00;23;46;04'''

'''Dianna'''

The guy in the middle.


'''00;23;46;16 - 00;23;49;01'''

'''Doll'''

So I see it now that's even blurrier than the other guy. 


'''00;23;49;03 - 00;23;55;06'''

'''Dianna'''

Mhm. And he, he looks like, you know, because we know who's playing Turak that looks like that actor.


'''00;23;56;08 - 00;24;05;04'''

'''Thad'''

So yeah you know what, that would, that would make a lot of sense because we know that he's also a blade master. Mm hmm. So he would be probably up front defending like that.


'''00;24;05;05 - 00;24;08;26'''

'''Dianna'''

But how he is using a blade with those nails? Teach me your ways High Lord Turak.


'''00;24;09;07 - 00;24;12;13'''

'''Thad'''

Unless he's using a claw weapon of some kind.


'''00;24;12;23 - 00;24;13;20'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah, could be.


'''00;24;14;11 - 00;24;25;00'''

'''Thad'''

But. Yeah, because he's not, he's not wearing a helmet like the other ones are. You can clearly see. It looks like he has something that comes up in front of him, like a little black triangle that comes up in front of his mouth.


'''00;24;25;24 - 00;24;29;08'''

'''Doll'''

I can’t tell if that's something over his mouth or if it's a beard.


'''00;24;29;08 - 00;24;33;11'''

'''Thad'''

Or that might be something just to the side or perspective. Looks funny on it.


'''00;24;33;11 - 00;24;35;00'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah, I kinda think it's a beard.


'''00;24;35;18 - 00;24;40;25'''

'''Doll'''

Yeah, I think it's just his collar. And then his face is really blurry because of the motion.


'''00;24;40;26 - 00;24;41;11'''

'''Dianna'''

Looks great though.


'''00;24;41;11 - 00;24;45;21'''

'''Thad'''

I wonder where this is, because it's very desert-y looking.


'''00;24;45;25 - 00;24;56;28'''

'''Dianna'''

My guess is this is Falme and this is outside after they've taken the city. Or it could be even like I can't remember if Falme has like a palace or like a city center.


'''00;24;56;28 - 00;25;04;18'''

'''Thad'''

Kinda not really. I don't think they were described it if there’s like, like a big spiraling castle. Because it’s a port town.


'''00;25;04;21 - 00;25;09;01'''

'''Dianna'''

True, true. This could be, I think this is Falme, Yeah. This could be on the way in to Falme.


'''00;25;09;04 - 00;25;13;27'''

'''Doll'''

What is the emblems on those those flags. Those are the ones you're talking about like the Seanchan.


'''00;25;13;27 - 00;25;15;12'''

'''Thad'''

Yeah. That's the Seanchan.


'''00;25;15;13 - 00;25;17;25'''

'''Doll'''

Okay. And they don't waste time setting them, do they.


'''00;25;17;26 - 00;25;22;17'''

'''Dianna'''

They came in, they were like, this is our city now. This is our world you're living in it. Everybody from the Westlands.


'''00;25;23;13 - 00;25;32;28'''

'''Thad'''

Yeah, it is, cause you know, that's the whole crux of it. Is that they come back going, you know, “We're back to take what is rightfully ours, you will swear fealty and you're good to go about your day just to hold yourself to these oaths.”


'''00;25;33;04 - 00;25;39;05'''

'''Dianna'''

Why do you guys think they kidnap or they're trying to kidnap Loial if that's who has him in ropes?


'''00;25;39;10 - 00;25;51;01'''

'''Thad'''

If that is the Seanchan this is more of a later book kind of thing. So can't really extrapolate too much on that, but I have a theory on it. But if we're sticking to the first three books I don't have a theory.


'''00;25;51;22 - 00;25;57;15'''

'''Doll'''

Yeah. I don't know other than they just rounded up anybody who would refuse to swear the oaths.


'''00;25;57;15 - 00;26;04;23'''

'''Thad'''

Any and all. Because what we know about the Seanchan later on in the series would make this scene seem odd.


'''00;26;04;25 - 00;26;23;23'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah, I agree. There's a particular thing to do with Seanchan culture and Ogier in particular. If you don't know what we're talking about, again, read and find out. 

But I agree. I also found this very strange because of that. So I'm wondering if maybe it's not the Seanchan, maybe the Whitecloaks.


'''00;26;24;09 - 00;26;26;28'''

'''Doll'''

Is he tied up or is he wearing a harness?


'''00;26;27;04 - 00;26;28;21'''
'''Dianna'''

He has a rope around his neck.


'''00;26;28;23 - 00;26;32;16'''

'''Thad'''

It's like it's around his neck and it comes out from under the armpit.


'''00;26;32;16 - 00;26;40;14'''

'''Doll'''

Right. But that could be him hauling something with, by a harness, like it's around his shoulder and he's hauling it. So I'm not sure if he's tied up.


'''00;26;40;14 - 00;26;44;20'''

'''Dianna'''

Definitely looks like he is... Wait a minute. I'm going to watch the thing real quick.


'''00;26;44;20 - 00;26;47;21'''

'''Doll'''

He looks angry, but I don't know that that could just be effort.


'''00;26;47;24 - 00;26;50;03'''

'''Thad'''

Yeah, effort. That's what, that's what I was thinking.


'''00;26;50;09 - 00;26;51;28'''

'''Doll'''

It's hard to tell.


'''00;26;51;28 - 00;26;56;16'''

'''Thad'''

They want you to get that visceral reaction of, oh, no Loial, he is in trouble, save our baby boy.


'''00;26;56;22 - 00;27;00;29'''

'''Dianna'''

It worked.


'''00;26;56;22 - 00;27;00;29'''

'''Doll'''

It could just be using his strength to haul something. And it's like...


'''00;27;01;11 - 00;27;04;27'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah that could be because he is. Yeah, he is doing like that…


'''00;27;05;15 - 00;27;10;15'''

'''Doll'''

Cause it’s not, if he's tied up, that's not holding him. It's very loosely around his shoulder.


'''00;27;11;00 - 00;27;19;23'''

'''Thad'''

You know, it's very odd is that I left the trailer, continue playing. And then we have Moiraine crying. Looks like she's sitting in a tub with her knees up to her neck.


'''00;27;19;28 - 00;27;29;05'''

'''Dianna'''

I think that's her in Cairhien , very, very early in the season, dealing with the loss of being shielded from the One Power and feeling very human about it.


'''00;27;29;05 - 00;27;29;29'''

'''Thad'''

That would make sense.


'''00;27;30;02 - 00;27;44;23'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah, Moiraine is definitely going through it in this trailer, I don't think there's a single point in this trailer where she seems happy or at all at peace. She's yelling at Lan, she's in the bath crying, she is looking scared with a knife. 
Just Moiraine's bad day continues.


'''00;27;44;26 - 00;27;49;23'''

'''Thad'''

Although I don't think she's the one having the worst time in this trailer. I can think of one person more.


'''00;27;49;24 - 00;27;51;23'''

'''Doll'''

I was just about to bring that one up.


'''00;27;51;23 - 00;27;55;09'''

'''Dianna'''

Should we? Should we talk about my poor precious baby angel?


'''00;27;56;16 - 00;27;59;09'''

'''Doll'''

This picture of Egwene at 51 seconds.


'''00;27;59;12 - 00;28;00;07'''

'''Dianna'''

Broke my heart.


'''00;28;00;07 - 00;28;02;11'''

'''Doll'''

She is very definitely wearing a collar.


'''00;28;02;14 - 00;28;03;15'''

'''Thad'''

She's been shackled.


'''00;28;03;22 - 00;28;07;04'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah. And this is the moment that Rafe referenced in the panel.


'''00;28;07;11 - 00;28;15;02'''

'''Doll'''

So spoilers! But I'm pretty sure that is a collar around her from the Seanchan and she has been collared as a damane.


'''00;28;15;02 - 00;28;20;11'''

'''Dianna'''

That is exactly what the damane collars look like. Looks like they don't have the mouth guard over her.


'''00;28;21;00 - 00;28;22;21'''

'''Doll'''

I imagine that comes later.


'''00;28;22;21 - 00;28;25;18'''

'''Thad'''

Probably once they've, once they break her spirit.


'''00;28;25;25 - 00;28;40;28'''

'''Dianna'''

Mm hmm. It looks like the dress that she's wearing, is this damane dress as well. My guess is this is after she's been captured for a little bit and is trying to break free and can't, and is like screaming in rage. Yeah, I don't think this is right after she got kidnaped.


'''00;28;40;28 - 00;28;45;02'''

'''Thad'''

But she's not bloody and everything too. I mean, she's got blood on her face and stuff, so.


'''00;28;45;08 - 00;28;45;29'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah.


'''00;28;45;29 - 00;28;46;20'''

'''Doll'''

I mean, she could have been beaten.


'''00;28;46;20 - 00;28;46;21'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah, she could have been beaten. 


'''00;28;46;20 - 00;28;46;21'''

'''Thad'''

That's true. 


'''00;28;46;22 - 00;28;56;01'''

'''Dianna'''

With the One Power. Yeah. That split second broke my heart. That episode is going to be very tough to watch.


'''00;28;56;10 - 00;29;00;29'''

'''Doll'''

The way they have her scream like lasts the rest of the trailer basically.


'''00;29;00;29 - 00;29;22;01'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah. I think they talked on the panel about how everyone in this season, people are off on their own journeys, we're diving more into their characters, which is great, but no one is having a good time. None of our main characters are having a good time this season, which is, you know, kind of true to the books. Unfortunately, this is where things, this the first turn towards things being really tough for our heroes.


'''00;29;22;09 - 00;29;28;21'''

'''Dianna'''

Hopefully, at least Elaine is having a good time at some point because she’s Elaine, I feel like it's having a good time it’s her.


'''00;29;28;21 - 00;29;31;26'''

'''Thad'''

Anything else kind of sticks out in the trailer that either of you want to talk about?


'''00;29;32;13 - 00;29;33;13'''

'''Dianna'''

Two things for me.


'''00;29;33;13 - 00;29;34;10'''

'''Thad'''

Two things?


'''00;29;34;17 - 00;29;38;07'''

'''Dianna'''

First, Nynaeve practicing with the Warders? That is very interesting.


'''00;29;38;07 - 00;29;40;07'''

'''Doll'''

That was another thing I screamed at.


'''00;29;40;07 - 00;29;50;17'''

'''Thad'''

I thought it was just like a battle going on. And then if you look at the background, you realize that she is at the White Tower, based on, looks, based on the architecture, it looks like she might be at the White Tower.


'''00;29;50;18 - 00;29;57;14'''

'''Doll'''

Yes. Still doesn't necessarily mean that she's practicing. They could have sped the timeline, a little on something.


'''00;29;57;14 - 00;30;52;15'''

'''Dianna'''

I think she's practicing. So I have a couple of theories for why Nynaeve is practicing with the sword. So she can't hear the wind anymore. She has her block now, but she doesn't want to be useless, cause she’s Nynaeve and so she's like, “Let me train with the sword.” She also bonded with the Warders much more closely than she did any of the Aes Sedai in season one and it makes sense for her to seek solace with them, especially as Egwene is like leaning more into being an Aes Sedai and a Novice

Also what better way to flirt with your boyfriend who is blade master and also a Warder than to learn the sword while he's off on his adventure with his Aes Sedai? And then come back and be like, we could span together baby. So, which is a very superficial way of looking at it. I think it's probably the first thing I said first. But, you know, on some level.


'''00;30;52;23 - 00;31;14;29'''

'''Thad'''

I more or less agree with you because if you look I mean, she's very, her clothes are clean because we see most people in this trailer are fighting the Seanchan, like that seems to be the majority of the trailer. But she's clean, she's fighting. You know, you can see in the background it's the White Tower. You can also see a bunch of training equipment in the background too, like racks of swords, targets for bow and arrow and stuff like that.


'''00;31;15;00 - 00;31;26;20'''

'''Dianna'''

I'm confident this is her training. She could even be training with Alanna's waters. One of them kind of looks like I can't remember his name. The Warder who’s played by Rafe’s husband or partner. These look like her Warder to me.


'''00;31;26;29 - 00;31;27;21'''

'''Thad'''

Owain and Ihvon.


'''00;31;28;01 - 00;31;34;16'''

'''Dianna'''

I think, I think Ihvon is the blonde one and fun fact that is Rafe’s partner that's for sure Rafe’s partner playing that Warder.


'''00;31;34;22 - 00;31;36;17'''

'''Thad'''

I didn't know that. Look at that.


'''00;31;36;19 - 00;31;49;12'''

'''Dianna'''

I follow him and Rafe on Instagram and I love watching their adventures together. They're very cute. 

Also pretty sure we see Nynaeve’s Accepted test a little bit in here that's got to be the dreamy feel that we see.


'''00;31;49;13 - 00;31;53;24'''

'''Thad'''

Oh, yeah. Okay. I was, I was thinking about that and was trying to place that when I watched it.


'''00;31;54;10 - 00;31;57;26'''

'''Doll'''

I took a screenshot of it because I wasn't, I’m like “Is that Nynaeve without a braid?”


'''00;31;57;29 - 00;32;12;10'''

'''Dianna'''

It also looks like a lot of VFX. It's one of the few scenes in this trailer that looks very surreal and ethereal, which makes me think that it's probably her test through the arches. 

We also see Suian, which is great, glad we're going to get more Siuan, love her.


'''00;32;12;10 - 00;32;23;24'''

'''Thad'''

We know in the book that she travels out there to see, er no, I'm sorry. I'm mixing areas up. She traveled north to meet with Rand, originally for The Great Hunt, but things are getting shuffled so she'll probably go elsewhere.


'''00;32;23;26 - 00;32;42;22'''

'''Dianna'''

Maybe she goes to Cairhien to fetch Moiraine and is like, “Get back, I need you,” which would be an honoring of the oath. Maybe we get a scene… maybe for some reason Elaida is in Cairhien and we get a Siuan/Elaida moment. That would be fun. I was just excited to see Siuan again.

Also looking incredible. The costume team really went off this season.


'''00;32;42;27 - 00;32;48;25'''

'''Thad'''

Yeah. And with those two other unknown actors that have been announced, one of them could be Elaida.


'''00;32;49;02 - 00;32;57;13'''

'''Dianna'''

Natasha O'Keefe is my personal theory for who is going to play Lanfear and I can't remember the name of the other actress, but she's my theory for who is going to play Verin.


'''00;32;57;23 - 00;33;15;15'''

Thad
But we are also confirmed that you know, we saw Elaine and then earlier this year we got confirmed on Aviendha is going to be in this season. She appeared roughly two thirds of the way through book three. Rafe confirmed that this goes through the end of Dragon Reborn.


'''00;33;15;23 - 00;33;23;05'''

'''Dianna'''

And the other thing I want to talk about, which I swear I will be respectful of, is Rand being tied to a wheel, I’m just going to fan myself a little bit.


'''00;33;23;22 - 00;33;28;26'''

'''Thad'''

You can’t see this, but she is just kind of… “I do believe I have the vapors.”


'''00;33;29;00 - 00;33;48;02'''

'''Dianna'''

It's a good look for Josha, okay? Josha, Josha did work and it is evident and it's a good look. But I think this is him being tortured by Ishamael in his dreams or in some sort of like alternate space. I can't think of any reason why, any other reason Rand would be tied to a wheel, but he is like… obsessed.


'''00;33;48;03 - 00;33;50;03'''

'''Thad'''

He is bound to the Wheel of Time.


'''00;33;50;04 - 00;34;01;20'''

'''Dianna'''

Right, exactly. And I could see Ishamael forcing him to be physically bound to the Wheel in a very literal sense, and then being like the only way to stop this is to break the Wheel.


'''00;34;01;25 - 00;34;07;15'''

'''Doll'''

I think you're right. The only other thing I could think of is of replacing the box with this. That's way too early.


'''00;34;07;27 - 00;34;09;16'''

'''Dianna'''

It's way too early for the box.


'''00;34;09;16 - 00;34;10;26'''

'''Thad'''

Yeah, the box is like.


'''00;34;10;27 - 00;34;11;26'''

'''Doll'''

Not in book three.


'''00;34;12;01 - 00;34;12;04'''

'''Thad'''

Not in book three.


'''00;34;12;05 - 00;34;18;13'''

'''Dianna'''

It’s another one of those things that I think they probably will do semi verbatim because it's so visceral.


'''00;34;18;13 - 00;34;22;00'''

'''Thad'''

You need that. That's one thing that you have to have.


'''00;34;22;01 - 00;35;03;20'''

'''Dianna'''

It is essential, like absolutely essential to Rand’s arc and just essential to the story. 

So cool,  yeah, I think this is Ishamael torturing Rand in his dreams some more, which seems like we're going to get a lot of this season. So maybe even like maybe Lanfear could even offer Rand a like balm in his dreams or some sort of like, safe space in his dreams, “safe space” in quotes cause it’s Lanfear. But that would be very in-character for her to try and like tempt him, basically her an Ishamael play good cop, bad cop, and she tempts him and tries to be like, “But Lews Therin, come to my side, I'm so kind to you, look Ishamael is being so mean to you, but I’ll treat you right.”


'''00;35;04;02 - 00;35;05;12'''

'''Thad'''

“I'll protect you. Come here.”


'''00;35;05;15 - 00;35;14;19'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah. I do have to say, I sincerely hope that they never call him just “Lews” again. That is something that they did in episode eight. Drove me bananas.


'''00;35;15;08 - 00;35;20;16'''

'''Thad'''

I think I just kind of blocked it out because I always, I don't, you don't say just “Lews”. You say “Lews Therin.”


'''00;35;20;16 - 00;35;21;18'''

'''Dianna'''

It’s “Lews Therin.”


'''00;35;22;08 - 00;35;23;14'''

'''Thad'''

Or Lews Therin Telamon.


'''00;35;23;14 - 00;35;29;29'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah. Ishamael called him Lews at one point in episode eight and I, like my skin curled. Please, never again.


'''00;35;30;09 - 00;35;38;14'''

'''Thad'''

If it's from Ishamael, I get the track. You know. And then later, later we get the very awful pun. “What are you, a loser?”


'''00;35;41;28 - 00;35;47;03'''

'''Doll'''

From Ishamael he would be purposely leaving out his second name because he doesn't respect him.


'''00;35;47;11 - 00;35;47;21'''

'''Thad'''

Not at all.


'''00;35;47;21 - 00;35;52;23'''

'''Doll'''

Somehow I feel like he did that in the book. But maybe I'm just, let me know.


'''00;35;52;23 - 00;35;57;05'''

'''Thad'''

If he did, I don't remember it because everybody always says Lews Therin or Lews Therin Telamon.


'''00;35;57;14 - 00;35;58;28'''

'''Dianna'''

I don’t think he ever does that in the book.


'''00;35;58;28 - 00;35;59;24'''

'''Doll'''

He probably didn't.


'''00;35;59;24 - 00;36;06;13'''

'''Dianna'''

If he does it ever, ever, ever, it's in the Prologue and I don't think he does. Pretty sure he never, pretty sure he either calls him Lews Therin...


'''00;36;06;13 - 00;36;08;01'''

'''Thad'''

You're going to make me go grab my book?


'''00;36;08;02 - 00;36;12;08'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah, pretty sure he calls him Lews Therin or Kinslayer.


'''00;36;12;19 - 00;36;17;05'''

'''Thad'''

I think he always… yeah, I think he always calls him Lews Therin, because, you know, he's also insane.


'''00;36;17;08 - 00;36;17;19'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah.


'''00;36;17;23 - 00;36;23;20'''

'''Doll'''

There is one more thing at 52 seconds. Is that a Fade?


'''00;36;23;26 - 00;36;28;02'''

'''Dianna'''

That certainly could be. That was the one thing in this trailer I had no idea what was happening.


'''00;36;28;15 - 00;36;34;09'''

'''Doll'''

You know, I cannot think of anything else it could be. Some very menacing looking blade.


'''Dianna'''

It is, that sword is terrifying.


'''00;36;34;12 - 00;36;36;03'''

'''Thad'''

It's covered in blood already, too.


'''00;36;36;06 - 00;36;41;19'''

'''Dianna'''

It could maybe be the Fade that’s with Padan Fain.


'''00;36;41;19 - 00;36;42;23'''

'''Doll'''

Shadar Haran?


'''00;36;42;23 - 00;36;44;29'''

'''Dianna'''

No, Shadar Haran comes later.


'''00;36;44;29 - 00;36;46;01'''

'''Doll'''

He’s later.


'''00;36;46;02 - 00;36;50;26'''

'''Dianna'''

I think because Padan Fain, he like works with a couple of Myrddraal and I a troop of Trollocs for a bit.


'''00;36;50;28 - 00;36;54;23'''

'''Thad'''

In the previous preview we do see the Fade nailed to the wall.


'''00;36;54;23 - 00;36;58;14'''

'''Dianna'''

True, true. True, true. Forgot about that. Definitely could be a Fade.


'''00;36;58;16 - 00;37;17;21'''

'''Thad'''

The Fade definitely did not get enough screen time in season one. I think there were three scenes that I can think of off the top of my head of over the entire course of the season. Obviously, outside of the one that was chasing them down at Taren Ferry. In Fal Dara we saw a couple, because they showed up with Fain and carried off the horn and I think...


'''00;37;18;00 - 00;37;19;21'''

'''Doll'''

That attacked them at the barn.


'''00;37;20;21 - 00;37;28;09'''

'''Dianna'''

And that one we saw barely. 

So Doll you had mentioned that you think some of these are the sacking of Tear and I would love to know.


'''00;37;28;13 - 00;37;34;01'''

'''Doll'''

You know the slower we slow it down, the more I see, I think I just couldn’t move so fast.


'''00;37;34;01 - 00;37;39;12'''

'''Thad'''

Yeah I think a lot of the fighting scenes are Seanchan so I don't think it is Tear specifically.


'''00;37;39;29 - 00;37;51;03'''

'''Doll'''

When it was moving so fast I think I just, some of them didn't look as Seanchan, but like one of them was the one outside the castle that we saw.


'''00;37;51;18 - 00;37;59;07'''

'''Thad'''

I think a lot of this is the battle at Falme, because we see the Whitecloaks also charging in.


'''00;37;59;10 - 00;38;07;10'''

'''Dianna'''

I think a lot of this is also probably early season. Like I would say, so we're getting eight episodes again. I could see this being all the way through episode five.


'''00;38;07;11 - 00;38;12;28'''

'''Thad'''

Yeah, because we're going to need a significant amount of time to cover Tear. One, since it is that significant, maybe two episodes?


'''00;38;13;02 - 00;38;47;19'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah, because the sacking of Tear is like THAT (snaps fingers), it’s very fast. I think this is probably all early season stuff also in terms of production and what they have available would make a lot more sense that they've, they've done all of the post-production on, on episodes like, you know, let’s say one through four. Plus with the Seanchan, like the big reveal at the end of season one being the Seanchan, they want to, they probably are going to focus their marketing on that, at least in the beginning and kind of bury, in the same way that they buried the Eye of the World and the Dragon Reborn reveal for season one. I think they're probably going to bury Tear a little bit.


'''00;38;47;26 - 00;38;56;14'''

'''Thad'''

Yeah, that would, that would make a lot of sense. Cause, you know, book two and three are pretty much all about Seanchan. And then, you know, we don't see them again for a bit.


'''00;38;56;25 - 00;39;05;02'''

'''Doll'''

There is one scene here at 49 seconds where we see Uno fighting. But having seen them earlier, kneeling in front of the Seanchan.


'''00;39;05;02 - 00;39;07;12'''

'''Thad'''

Pausing that at 48, that's a Seanchan.


'''00;39;07;20 - 00;39;19;18'''

'''Doll'''

I think it was just when it was moving faster, it's a lot more visually confusing. This looked more like inside of the Stone of Tear, but I think you're right. I think this is outside of Falme, and it's just darker.


'''00;39;19;21 - 00;39;36;19'''

'''Dianna'''

This also could be where, cause we see Uno kidnaped or captured in the beginning, this could be where they get captured. 

This also could be like they, it's dark. They wrap, they like try to throw some sort of like harness thing on Loial to pin him down, because Ogier - great fighters.


'''00;39;36;25 - 00;39;41;07'''

'''Thad'''

I would not be surprised if all of this came from only two episodes.


'''00;39;41;07 - 00;40;04;14'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah, agreed. This very easily could be the bulk. Like the majority of these shots could easily be from like episodes two and three or three and four. So.. especially because there's so much Seanchan in this sneak peek, I was like, okay, so we're getting our favorite, least favorite bug people, southern bug people in so much of this season.


'''00;40;04;14 - 00;40;10;25'''

'''Thad'''

That so in the vein of that, do we want to talk about why we think they didn't reveal a release date?


'''00;40;11;00 - 00;40;57;00'''

'''Dianna'''

Yes. So I went back, did a deep dove through Wheel of Time’s Instagram for their marketing for season one. And we first got confirmation that it was coming out in 2021, in June of 2021, then we got November of 2021 in July. And then it's not until September that we got the first full trailer. It wasn't until October 7 that they dropped that the premiere date was November 19.

This is very consistent with how other companies dropped their release dates. I am also a His dark materials fan and His dark materials just dropped their Season three trailer and their Season three release date, which is December 5.


'''00;40;57;00 - 00;40;57;29'''

'''Doll'''

That was also at Comic Con.


'''00;40;58;08 - 00;42;26;01'''

'''Dianna'''

Yeah, they dropped it at ComicCon. December 5, which is approximately two months, really was exactly two months from when they dropped it. So I know people are chomping at the bit to know when we are getting a season two. We all are too. We are all there with you. I just want to remind people of what the marketing looked like last time so that people don't freak out, that we don't have a release date right now. It is too early for us to even know a release month based on the marketing that they had done previously.

We've gotten unofficial confirmation of 2023. Natasha O'Keefe in one of her interviews said, I'm in season two of Wheel of Time, which is coming out in 2023. That's the unofficial confirmation we've gotten. I have a feeling we will get some quote unquote “official confirmation” of next year, sometime around December or maybe even when Rings of Power ends.

I would expect us to get confirmation in late 2022 or early 2023 of a release year, then likely a month to two months out a release month, and then roughly a month out a release date. So don't freak out, fans. It's coming. We know they're working on it. Rafe clearly wants to give us as much as possible, but he has to stick with Amazon's marketing campaign and marketing strategy. Just know it may be a while. We may still be three to four months out from any sort of date whatsoever. 

But that's all we have to say. On the sneak peek. If you have questions or comments for us about this episode or any others, you can send them to producer.tvt@gmail.com. We would love to hear from you.


'''00;42;26;17 - 00;42;32;07'''

'''Doll'''

Or you can join us on the site and respond in our TarValon Talks thread in General.


'''00;42;32;12 - 00;44;03;14'''

'''Dianna'''

We love to hear from you there too, and we can't wait to talk more things Wheel of Time. And in our next episode and in future episodes, we will be covering more show news as well as it comes out. Until then!


==Episode Guide==

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[[TarValon Talks Episode 2: Origins of the Wheel of Time with Michael Livingston]]

[[Category: TarValon Talks]]